the goal size is 2 small

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the goal size is 2 small

Post by B4D 4SS on Sun Apr 10 2016, 11:42

sum1 who knows how 2 edit the map shud make a map where the goal size is slightly bigger but not bigger than big ez. just enough so that keeping a cleansheet is incredibly difficult but NOT impossible if perfectly defended as a team.

atm ur more of an offensive threat with counter attacks rather than possession, and its impossible 2 score in possession without opponent making an obvious mistake unless u overcommit, but that risks counter attack more than it helps u score so its something no1 does unless they need a goal.

from watching matches possession seems to be the best indicator of a teams skill, game sense and co-ordination, so it should follow that its more useful to be in possession than not being in possession, unless u want dis 2 be low skill ceiling game that doesnt reward better players.

*by possession i mean ball in opponent last 3rd

sum1 make new premhax 3v3 map with slightly bigger goals? it cud at the least be an option 2 vote for with the ssn4 cup






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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 10 2016, 11:46

Why dont we give legs to the 'discs' too.
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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by mlfaijati on Sun Apr 10 2016, 12:45

the problem is that the ball is too big, not the goals being too small

i think mad made a map that had a slightly smaller ball and larger goal to be used to play 4v4 without the 3 man def rule, not that anyone gave that a fair shot though

but in reality, i don't think there's a problem with the big map inherently, we just need to get better at hax and then goals will flow




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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by abi on Sun Apr 10 2016, 15:48

ye can't really be slating the map and skill cap of hax when you haven't reached the top of the game, about 4 people on the site have the skill to actually beat an opponent off the wall/in the corner consistently and accurately pass on a regular basis, learning to do that instead of just keeping possession will get you more goals

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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by The Doctor on Sun Apr 10 2016, 16:01

aeRo wrote:ye can't really be slating the map and skill cap of hax when you haven't reached the top of the game, about 4 people on the site have the skill to actually beat an opponent off the wall/in the corner consistently and accurately pass on a regular basis, learning to do that instead of just keeping possession will get you more goals
sfe aero, who are the other 3?
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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by B4D 4SS on Sun Apr 10 2016, 18:43

aeRo wrote:ye can't really be slating the map and skill cap of hax when you haven't reached the top of the game, about 4 people on the site have the skill to actually beat an opponent off the wall/in the corner consistently and accurately pass on a regular basis, learning to do that instead of just keeping possession will get you more goals


that may be true about the skill of premhax players, but this applies even to people on ur level, u simply cant score against a bus unless that bus makes an obvious mistake, so small mistakes arent punished lowering the skill ceilling of defence nd making the game unbalanced. theres countless examples of a beter team attacking all game and losing, even happened 2 u mad nd jai vs c3. i dont see why anybody wud be against this goal size idea, surely every1 wud be happy if the skill ceilling was higher? the goal shud be big as possible while still being able to not conceed if defended perfectly, so why not make it that size?






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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by Silent on Sun Apr 10 2016, 18:47

if this would be the case of expanding the goal, why don't we put the premierhax logo in the middle of the pitch? It'll look professional.
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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by Sugar Ray on Sun Apr 10 2016, 18:54

Świeczka wrote:if this would be the case of expanding the goal, why don't we put the premierhax logo in the middle of the pitch? It'll look professional.

Cant we do that without expanding the goals?




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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by Silent on Sun Apr 10 2016, 18:59

@Sugar Ray wrote:
Świeczka wrote:if this would be the case of expanding the goal, why don't we put the premierhax logo in the middle of the pitch? It'll look professional.

Cant we do that without expanding the goals?

True dat.
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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 10 2016, 19:01

Can we also have the millions and millions of punk fans on the stands.
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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by The Doctor on Sun Apr 10 2016, 19:19

Won't changing the map and playing on it regularly effect the newer players when they start to play in other leagues where this map doesn't exist?
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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by B4D 4SS on Sun Apr 10 2016, 19:29

xOscar wrote:You've missed his point B4d.

You can score against a bus, but not with pointless possession. But with actually accurate passing, opposed to "in their general direction" passing. Thus imposing a very high level skill ceiling.

Look at C3, it wasn't their possession that beat teams bussing, but their actually accurate passing which allowed them to score for fun. (As well as giving them threatening possession and not pointless possession, ie. they didn't need a 15 passing move to create space, they could do it in 2 actually accurate passes). ^^


xx

last ssn3 c3 scored cus the defending was horrific and they commited their gk, but when they came up vs a half decent bus of cant score, they lost just how jai mad nd aero lost in ssn vs c3 bus. yeh ur more likely 2 score but it is impossible without an obvious mistake.

honestly tho, if the goal size cud be increeased to the point of it being much harder to cleansheet but possible with perfect defence, why wud any1 not want it?? i simply dont see how people can be against maximising the skill ceiling.






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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by B4D 4SS on Sun Apr 10 2016, 20:05

xOscar wrote:You've missed the point b4d.

fock off troll






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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by Beninho on Sun Apr 10 2016, 20:21

we didnt bus wdf you've literally just assumed every team vs c3 = bus




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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by abi on Sun Apr 10 2016, 20:21

yeah I get where you're coming from b4dman, it's actually kinda the same in all forms of haxball, the better team at defending will usually beat the team that has a lot of possession but does nothing with it. Even in 4v4 big easy teams like belarus, russia, serbia, fuck it even latvia (shoutout to girgs) tend to go further in the competition simply because they know how defend far better than say uk do. That said, the teams that do beat these good defending team tend to be the ones who are genuinely elite at haxball like turkey, old italy, old sweden etc. I know 4v4 big easy =/= 3v3 big but it seemed that being genuinely superior at the game will mean you will win majority of your games.

I think that loss against c3 was down to a combination of things; good defending by c3, arrogance on our part - possibly being too careless and playing pretty poorly. That's going to happen to every team at some point, they will just lose to a defensive team because they are having an off day or haven't practiced enough.

I do agree with you that currently the meta would be defending well > attacking/keeping possession but if people put in the time and are willing to improve I think there is no reason that more goals won't be scored.

But fuck it what do I know, I don't consider myself elite nor do I think I'll ever be elite but those are the things I've noticed in all the hours of my life I've wasted on this game.

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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by B4D 4SS on Sun Apr 10 2016, 20:22

@Beninho wrote:we didnt bus wdf you've literally just assumed every team vs c3 = bus

yeh ok then jsut use SH vs c3 example, same point






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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by B4D 4SS on Sun Apr 10 2016, 20:48

aeRo wrote:yeah I get where you're coming from b4dman, it's actually kinda the same in all forms of haxball, the better team at defending will usually beat the team that has a lot of possession but does nothing with it. Even in 4v4 big easy teams like belarus, russia, serbia, fuck it even latvia (shoutout to girgs) tend to go further in the competition simply because they know how defend far better than say uk do. That said, the teams that do beat these good defending team tend to be the ones who are genuinely elite at haxball like turkey, old italy, old sweden etc. I know 4v4 big easy =/= 3v3 big but it seemed that being genuinely superior at the game will mean you will win majority of your games.

I think that loss against c3 was down to a combination of things; good defending by c3, arrogance on our part - possibly being too careless and playing pretty poorly. That's going to happen to every team at some point, they will just lose to a defensive team because they are having an off day or haven't practiced enough.

I do agree with you that currently the meta would be defending well > attacking/keeping possession but if people put in the time and are willing to improve I think there is no reason that more goals won't be scored.

But fuck it what do I know, I don't consider myself elite nor do I think I'll ever be elite but those are the things I've noticed in all the hours of my life I've wasted on this game.

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it looks like big ez is a lot better cus with possession at least ur dangerous and dont risk counter attack, in 3v3 and 4v4 3def u got the counter attack risk, and the bus can get possession back with no risk cus of the striker, whereas in big ez all 4 are defending so if u bus fully u wont get possession, nd its just a matter of time b4 u make mistake. so id say big ez has a higher skill ceiling, simply cus possession is rewarded far more(see turkey 2015 cc).

the thing in 3v3 tho is its almost impossible 2 score (vs good defence) without the GK committing as if he were a DM and risking a counter, like what happened in ur match vs c3 where Jai tries 2 be a DM at the end.

also more goals=more fun game, i dont see the harm of at least tryin it in the cup or maybe next season pre-season cup, until ppl try it we dont know whether or not it will be more fun +skill ceiling.






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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by B4D 4SS on Sun Apr 10 2016, 21:39

xOscar wrote:Heh, it's very rare i find myself so unfulfilled in life i result to "trolling". I mean i do have a large wine collection for when things are rough.. I just don't see the connection between your obsession with this "skill ceiling" and the size of the goals.. Surely the bigger the goal the less skill needed to put said ball in said large net. Why not just make it rugby-ish and getting it to the line scores..

IMO a bigger goal certainly means a lower "skill ceiling". Bigger goal, less skill required to put ball in said bigger goal..What am i missing here..? (EDIT: Stating explicitly here, that i understand the obvious idea behind bigger goal, more skill required to defend)

And no i'm not missing your point about defending, and bussing. I just think you're over-reacting (massively). "You can't score unless they make a mistake". Nonsense man. Reason why goes back to the point IMO i've stated you've missed twice. Accurate passing.

Without going into an essay you have a point (a blatantly obvious one) about defending preventing a better team beating you every time without fail, but i think the games pretty balanced as it is imo.

why didnt SH's accurate passing score vs C3 then? there's countless of other examples, even aero just sed it the meta atm is to bus. also, it WOULD make the skill ceiling higher, cus the only factor wont just be defence, but also attack.

i clearly said, make it big as possible to the point of being impossible to score ONLY vs extremely high defence co-ordination and game sense.

what would this do?

the better ur attack, the more mistakes u would capitalise on = higher skill ceiling

the better ur defence, the less opportunities for opponent = higher skill ceiling

honestly if u dont understand how making the goal big as possible without being impossible to cs would raise the skill ceiling, its impossible 4 u 2 understand even with explaining, its like explaining to a dog that 1+1=2.

the only way this can be proven 2 u is if its tried out, and i guarantee if it was the better teams in both offence, defence and possession would win far more.






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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by mlfaijati on Sun Apr 10 2016, 22:05

shut the fuck up about your skill ceiling

also we didn't "bus" vs c3, we attacked quite a fair amount (scoring 3 goals) that game and just happened to defend better than they did.

let's just try it next funcup, maybe it'll end up like medium and we regret it, or maybe it becomes this league's niche




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Re: the goal size is 2 small

Post by Mád on Sun Apr 10 2016, 22:46

Couple of problems with this:

Bigger goals would be better when it's corner play because most goals come from counters but making this easier will always make counters harder to defend.

Accessiblity to new players, new players would be playing sometging different than pubs, the only way we'd practice is against the teams in this league leading to stagnation until the next season, being able to fs better 3v3 teams not from this league is beneficial because they should be better, not getting a good inflow of new players means we'd just be playing the same teams with some players being rotated every season until too many quit

Breaking down busses is always going to be hard in 3v3 due to not having any cover behind the gk meaning the risk is always high and the passing to be perfect, even then the defence just needs to bunker and not bite to stop the attack. In hax even with men down you just wait and play passive till someone makes a slight mistake which you punish and the attacks stopped.

Even the greatest attacking teams have up to high quality defence which normally help create more counter attacks which is why bussing only gets so far as counter attacks win.

Regarding the c3 match it's just cos aeros shit at 3v3 and always will be be no kappa

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